The following is an email I received regarding Christmas, written as a response to the message "A Day of Remembrance." I usually receive several of these type of notes during Christmas. I replied to the email and I will post my reply, but I would first be interested in how others would respond.

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How can you celebrate someone's birthday without knowing the date? This is a lie by every definition. If you know the truth about not knowing the date of Jesus' birthday, why go along with the rest of the world just for the sake of celebrating on a day that was set aside for Santa. This is sacrilegious. He will not give his glory to another. Don't you think that if we were to know the birthdate of our Lord and Savior, it would have been left on record so we could celebrate?

We are trying to make Holy what is not. And that is the day the world calls Christmas. No liar will tarry in his sight and this is a day that is not true for being Christ's birthday.
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Celebrating someone’s “birthdate” with or without knowing the actual date is in reality celebrating someone’s life. Though I know of no scriptural evidence that lives were celebrated in Biblical times, I know of no better life than Jesus' to celebrate!

Even though many Christians realize Christmas has definite pagan roots and it is not one of God’s appointed festival times, they still choose to celebrate the day. Why we celebrate and how we celebrate this day or any day is what is important. If it is celebrated for the express purpose of giving others the opportunity to know Jesus and expressing His love for them, I have less problem with it. It is also an opportunity for Christians who decide not to celebrate the day to show one another love and tolerance. Even though I do not celebrate Christmas with all of the decorations and indulgence of gifts, I still meet with family and friends who do and share with them the love of my Lord and Savior. It is a wonderful time of the year when people's hearts are full of joy and even though I do not celebrate Christmas as it is commonly celebrated, I do celebrate the light of Jesus come to this world. I would not take the joy away from others on this occasion, except only to add to their joy by teaching them a more excellent way.

Blessings,

Chelki

Exodus 34:6

Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth;"

"Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!" -- Jesus, the Messiah!, our salvation.

[This message was edited by Chelki on December 20, 2003 at 04:00 PM.]

Dear Steve,

I have loved the Lord and celebrated Jesus in my heart for 25 years. As a Christian and prior to that, Christmas has always been my favorite time of the year. Perhaps it is so because the celebration for me has usually been surrounded by happiness and warmth in my family as a boy and now in my own family. There was a time in my life, however, as a single man, when Christmas was a very lonely time for me.

Until you posed the question, I have never questioned whether Christians should be celebrating Christmas. I decided to so a cursory review on the internet of what others have written about the question and I am surprised, perhaps naively, that so much has been written on the subject. Truely, the Christmas celebration is drenched in pagan customs.

The difficulty is questioning IF I should be celebrating Christmas is that I always have done so. It is easy to list off various justifications as to why it is acceptable. We often do that to justify our past and continuance of various habits or customs of our life. It is equally easy to list reasons to NOT celebrate Christmas especially if it has been an unhappy time for us historically. For someone who has had many sad Christmas remembrances, whether due to broken families, poor childhood remembrances, or whatever reason, Christmas is perhaps a celebration that is easier to leave behind, especially for the Christian.

Whereas the day of Halloween, also a pagan holiday, is an occult celebration, Christmas must be diffentiated from it. I do not celebrate Halloween as it is shrouded in darkness and evil. Christmas, however, is a day based on the birth of Christ. Although the day has been commercialized beyond belief and I am now sick of hearing songs about Santa and the jingling of bells, my focus and heart is set on Christ and His birth. The day gives me a time to share the glorious event with people I know and love and I will continue to celebrate Christmas in this way.

Nick P.

AGREES WITH NICK COMPLETELY

Steve,

I have celebrated Christmas all my life, but since I have drawn nearer to the Lord in the Last 10 years; I realize I SHOULD CELEBRATE JESUS EVERYDAY! Wheter it is not written in the Word when Jesus was really born; I still know this is the season many celebrate Jesus. I feel this is the time to reflect on who Jesus is and how to express HIS Love with others. May this be a time were many seek and reach Jesus as Lord and savior. My Job is to win souls and minister the Word because he is the truth, the life and the way. I have learned to encourage many during the season were many celebrate Christ. I pray that we continue to examine the hearts of many WHILE LED BY THE SPIRIT. I once read a card that said "Christmas means that once again,We hear of "Peace, good will toward men," Of Jesus, Savior, Lord, and King, And all the Joy His birth would bring. God's miracle of long ago, Was meant for all the world to know, From ages past until today, The love of Christ is here to stay!!!!

Jesus Christ is the Same
Yesterday
And Today
And Forever.

Hebrews 13:8.


God Bless you all!

The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer; My God, My strength, in whom I will trust; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold. Psalm 18:2

John Trevino

Some people say Jesus was born on December the 25th and others say he was not. If we celebrate his birth everyday of our lives, someday we will be correct.

Merry Christmas and Celebrate Jesus birthday EVERY DAY OF YOUR LIFE!!

For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Jeremiah 29:11

~Amazed By His Grace~
~Tanya~

Christmas is often our best time of year to witness to the world about Christ. I can't see God getting upset about that.

You state that most christians realize that christmas has pagan roots.....WHY would you celebrate it when YHVH repetedly told Israel NOT to do as the pagans did and call it worship to him?? REFERENCES: Exodus 23:24,32,33 Exodus 34:11-17 Leviticus 18:2-5 Leviticus 20:23 Numbers 2-9 (talk about angry!) Deuteronomy 7:16 Deuteronomy 7:25, 26 Deuteronomy 11: 16 (easy to have your heart deceived) Deuteronomy 12: 2-4 Deuteronomy 12:29-32 (this one is the most explicit, best reason to NOT celebrate christmas but there are still more)
Deuteronomy 20:16-18 Deuteronomy 28:14 Joshua 23:7

The christmas "holiday" predates chritianity, in fact it predates Yashua (Jesus) and is based upon the worship of a syrian god who's mother's fertility festival is celebrated at spring(aproximately 9 months before chirstmas...hmmmm), has as it's symbols eggs and bunnies and is called Easter. Neither of these "holidays" have anything to do with our Lord and Savior. IF you REALLY want to celebrate His birth, figure it for sometime at the end of september or the beginning of october (Messianic leaders have figured it for about the time of Succoth(Tabernacles) based upon John the Baptist's birth (near to passover) and on the fact that shepards were only allowed in "the fields" after the harvest but before planting) and if you REALLY want to celebrate the Resurrection of Yashua, celebrate it just after passover since that's when it happened (NOT the first sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox which is how easter is figured) TAKE PAGANISM OUT OF WORSHIP!!! (ok, my rant is over) Kat

Kat - Your "rantings" are welcomed on this board. I thank you for your recent posts to this board and your obvious deep Biblical insight. Please continue to teach and encourage as the Lord leads.

I understand that we are not to do as the pagans do, but I also under that we are under a dispensation of grace & the scripture that pops into my mind is Rom chapter 14. Let every man be fully pursuaded in his own mind. Jesus died 2000 yrs ago (approx) so that each & every one of us can have an individual relationship with him, & because we are different parts of the body serving different purposes I beleive that is is possible for something to be ok for one christian & not ok for another, not that God's ways are uneaqual, but just that God can use people who celebrate christmas to glorify himself (for instance getting the display of the nativity in front of my home town city hall at christmas time, wich the state wont pay for but they will pay for Santa Clause & Frosty the snowman) & he can use people who don't celebrate christmas to glorify him in other ways.

Slade,
I understand what you mean but you must realize that YHVH gave His "house" rules for ALL believers, not just for some. I agree that there are different "jobs" we have to do but the basic rules remain. Another scripture that I should have included - the most telling regarding christmas's pagan ways is Jeremiah 10:2-5 which warns against Israel learning the ways of the Gentiles for their customs are futile. It then goes on to describe the practice of going to the woods and cutting a tree, putting it on a stand so that it can stand upright and decorating it with silver and gold....if that doesn't describe a christmas tree, I don't know what does. This was written well before Yashua's birth and describes something that people NOW call worshiping His birth! That is exactly what YHVH told us not to do. Aaron almost got all of Israel killed because he not only made a golden calf (which they begged him to do) but what REALLY steamed YHVH was that Aaron THEN announced that the next day would be "a feast to YHVH". And when they started their feast, YHVH was infuriated. Exodus 32:5-7. He didn't accept pagan practices then and He doesn't now....I know how hard it is to think that something we've done all our lives has been in error, but that's the facts. I've had to deal with that in my own home, with my family - most of whom remain in orthodox christian churchs - but when YHVH calls to us, we are to respond. He says "be holy for I am holy" the word holy in Hebrew is Kadosh and it means SET APART. We set ourselves apart by not doing what the world is doing, and what the world is doing is basically falling apart. So, I have set myself apart from "christianity" by refusing to participate in pagan holidays. I avoid anything to do with halloween too (well, except for eating more candy than I should - and I SHOULD set myself apart from that, so perhaps that's the next thing to work on.....). I am truely concerned with all my christian friends and relatives (which is almost EVERYONE) for fear that they could be doing something very wrong in YHVH's eyes....I know they're still saved, but I wonder what cost there may be for them to pay.
Hosea 4:6 states "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you from being priests for Me; Because you have forgotten the law of your God, I will also forget your children" NKJV
Amos 2:4 says "Thus says YHVH: For three transgressions of Judah, and for four, I will not turn away it's punishment, Because they have despised the law of YHVH an have not kept His commandments. Their lies lead them astray, Lies which their fathers followed."
That doesn't sound to me like He is going to let them all off scot free. Saved yes. They haven't turned to satan so they haven't lost their salvation (that's the only way to do that) but there will be some form of punishment.
I don't know what it will be, or when, and I am not judging them personally, I'm just worried about them and pray for them and for all christians.
Shalom,
Kat

Excuse me but I dont see anyone worshiping their christmas tree. I know that that passage resembles a christmas tree in Jeremiah but if you read the whole thing it is talking about a false god wich can neither see them nor hear their prayers & will not be able to deliver them when they are in trouble. But if we do a bunch of pagan customs in the nane of Jesus & in the spirit of goodwill & peace on earth I think that God will honor those who are worshipping him & will come to their aid when they are in trouble. Sure there are pagan practices associated with christmas but I don't think that it is wrong to give gifts to people & have a smile on your face, & if we did it every day of the year it would be better (I agree with John & Tanya) but at least we have an excuse to be nice to each other on one day a year (Rom 14:5 "One man esteemeth one day above another, another man esteemeth every day alike") so if some heathen decides to think about Jesus on his "supposed" birthday (I heard that it was in april myself) & walks into a church service only because it is christmas & just so happens to get saved on christmas isn't that God using a pagan thing for his glory? I am not going to tell people to celebrate or not to because like it said in Romans 14:5, let every man be fully pursuaded in his own mind. As far as the punishment of someone who uses a pagan practice to glorify God, it says that we will build on the foundation of Christ either valuable stuff or not valuable stuff & our works will be tried for what manner of value they are & those works that are no good will be burned away (1 cor 3:11-15). It is up to God to judge not me. I seen too many people praising God & repenting for their sins on Christmas day service for me to think it is all bad because before they repented some of them were 2x a year christians (Christmas & easter) or non-christians altrogether. I personally give gifts on christmas & sometimes set up a christmas tree in my house, if God wants to judge those acts sin that is his perogitive. But I don't feel guilty (1 Jn 3:20-21), the issue is to teach our children & anyone who will listen the truth about Jesus. Christmas is just another opprotunity to do this.

You made a very good point out of exodous & as always I will have to study this further. As far as Halloween goes it is also a pagan custom but I think that the catholic church was kinda smart the way that they handled it, they moved all saints day to november 1st so they explained that it was ok to dress up to scare away all the evil spirits before all saints day. Around halloween I talk about all saints day, although I am not a catholic (I'm protestant fundamentalist evangelical & anti-denominational) but use it as an excuse or a door opener to talk to people about Jesus. I personally have dressed up & gone door to door recieving candy & also I have given away candy from my house (perhaps I should have been giveing away tracts about Jesus too...). I don't know if or how I will ever celebrate Halloween again because I am moving into a deeper level of union with my heavenly father day by day & he may very well convict me to not do it.

Slade,
You have every right to celebrate whatever holidays you want to and if you want to call it worshiping YHVH, that's your right too....but I AM required to point out the problems with it since YHVH has pointed them out to me.
regarding worshiping trees....I know I never did, but I DID put presents under the tree and when we went to get them out, we knelt on our knees to do so which give the APPEARANCE of worshiping it which we are not to do.

I am even more concerned however with your comment about how the Catholic church "took care" of halloween. They didn't change it in any way, they didn't make it ok by naming the next day all saints and saying it was ok to scare off the bad spirits...THAT'S WITCHCRAFT plain and simple. To burn bonfires with herbs in them to banish the bad spirits is ALSO witchcraft - that's where these practices came from and that's where they remain. There is NOTHING HOLY ABOUT NOVEMBER 1, that's strictly a church doctrine set up by the catholic church and constantine......That's why it's important to know church history and doctrines.....to know when something the church says is ok IS NOT. YHVH says "suffer a witch not to live" in other words, they were to be killed, NOT emulated!!!!! If you don't believe me, fine and dandy, but pray to YHVH about it, He will tell you these things are NOT ok with Him.
Shalom,
Kat

Abstain from the very appearance of evil - good point.

I said I am not a catholic (I thought by saying that I implied that I don't aggree with their doctrine) But catholicysm used to conquor whole cultures in the name of God & in the process of bringing an entire people to their knees government officials will allow cultural fesivals of the origonal culture to remain for a time then have the festival altered with the imposing cultures' flavor. This is what I beleive happened with Easter, Christmas & All Saint's day (& All hallow's eve) I didn't mean to say that it was right, but I did mean to say that we are not under the law but under grace; so if god wants to punish or allow observance of heathen holidays that is between him & you. And the Catholic's did change something about Halloween, because it used to be about some demon named Samhein & the day had his name on it but when they moved all saint's day to Nov. 1 they changed the name of Samhein's day to all hallow's eve wich got shortened to Halloween.

I don't personally call when I give gifts on christmas or celebrate any other holiday a form of worship to God. When I worship God I worship God, it doesn't take a holiday for me to do that.

As Slade pointed out in another post, God speaks to us individually. What is right for one may not be right for all. I know someone who quit dancing when she became a Beleiver in Christ. Now I don't see anywhere in the Bible where God says dancing is a sin, but she told me, "to me, it's a sin." Who am I to judge another's servant? Some give up alcohol, smoking, or even playing cards. I don't find any of that in the Bible either, but if God told me to give those up, I would.

God told me to work at a New Thought Church. At first I thought I heard Him wrong. Why would God want me in with a bunch of heretics and unbelievers? But I fasted and prayed and the Holy Spirit gave me dreams and visions and words. After I worked there a while, He gave me many confirmations that I was in the right place. I never compromised my faith. I was a good employee but I was also a bold Christian so far as it didn't interfere with my work. As a result, I have a friend who used to work there coming to a Christian Bible Study now.

I planted many seeds with my testimony and my prayers, and I showed everyone the love of God the best I could. There were people at my church -- good Christian friends -- who told me God didn't want me to work there and they were praying for me to get a different job. They didn't understand.

Well, I understand why someone who loved God would not want to celebrate Christmas and Easter. There is a lot of impure pagan stuff associated with those holidays in our secular world. I totally respect a Believer not celebrating those days. However, The Lord has not told me to not celebrate them. In fact I feel strongly that He wants me to celebrate Christmas and Resurrection Sunday. Halloween is different to me. I cannot see how it glorifies God in the least. Again, however, I am no one's conscience. I speak only for myself.

It is possible to work in a New Thought church that teaches Jesus is not God, and to still be a strong Believer. It is also possible to celebrate Christ's birth at Christmas and His resurrection on "Easter" or Resurrection Sunday, and NOT be compromising or disobedient to God.

For me, my children are in the public school, and I have many friends and relatives who are not Christians. When Christmas season is here, it is an opportunity for me to send Christmas cards that explain the reason for Christ's birth. It is also an opportunity for my kids to tell others who Jesus is, and sing songs about salvation through Christ. At no other time of year is it so easy to bring up the subject of Jesus and witness to unbelievers!

Many people who aren't even Christians go to church on Easter and Christmas. Malls and festivals throughout the city allow church choirs to sing gospel songs in public places for people to hear who may never hear the gospel any other way. Even secular radio and TV stations play songs and shows about the Nativity. It is a tremendous opportunity to spread the gospel message!

I can totally understand why it vexes some people's conscience to celebrate with pagan traditions, but to me, I never knew the traditions were pagan until Christians told me as an adult. I don't know anyone who worships trees these days, so I don't believe I will lead anyone to believe that I do so by having a tree at Christmas time. When I kneel down to get a gift from under the tree, I know, my family and friends know,and God knows that I am not worshiping the tree. I merely celebrate the wonder of life in the midst of winter, a picture of our eternal life in Christ even in our physical death. To me it is a meaningful tradition, but I certainly won't judge another for not having a Christmas tree. After all, the Holy Spirit can speak to each of us individually.

May God's peace be with you all.

I came accross a passage that I think kinda ties in here - 2 chronicles chapter 30 - in this passage Hezekiah & the boys have passover during the 2nd month of the year (wich is already wrong) & then when they go to do the ceremony all the people who are participating didnt go through the ritual sanctification process yet (wich was also wrong) & so what happened? In the 18th verse it says that they ate the passover otherwise than it was written but because of God's relationship with the man Hezekiah God healed the people in verse 20.

I just looked at that passage in Exodous - your right he did call it a feast to the lord even though he was clearly disobeying him by making an image. Wich reminds me anything can be an idol, the crucifix can, or the bible itself, some people get so strung out on the book & the pages in the binding that they don't even have a clue about the author of the book. But on a more personal note I have a problem with too much worship going to the televison & the pc; I trip out on my show more than I trip out on preaching the word of God to the needy people in my neighborhood. The thing about that passage you gave me is the next line: "the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play" These guys weren't serious about their relationship with God; if they had a personal covenant with God themselves then they wouldn't have made God mad with the works of their hands. Like it says in Hab 2:4 "the just shall live by his faith." When God gets ahold of us he will give us the faith to deal with our situation, & we won't need an image because he gives us the earnest of the spirit in our hearts (2 Cor 1:22)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Slade,

Well hello! and how are you all doing on this blessed day? , but please! do record current reply only on the full record of our "Saviour's Birth Record" , :

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We love you'll: Fr: Bro. and Sis. Walter, Jr. and Deborah, La.

http://www.firstthings1st.com

Steve - you promised at the beginning of this thread that you would post your reply to the origonal question, but as I re-read it I didn't see it - do you still have it on file?

Thanks for the reminder! I'll need to go back in my archive files to find my reply. Give me a day or two.

Steve,
I am looking forward to your response on this topic!

Your Hampshire friend,
Eric

Hi Eric! Did I say a day or two? Maybe I should have said a month or two (or three). I've lost my original response, but I'm sure I can write something...just because you twisted my arm.

How are my friends in Hampshire? For those who don't know, Hampshire is a beautiful area about an hour south of Nashville TN. Pastor Eric is the minister of a wonderful church where my family and I were invited to park our trailer and share the love of Christ for a few days back in early June.

Keep preaching the truth my Brother! I hope to see you again someday soon.

Steve,
Your Hampshire friends are doing well! We are continuing to see signs of revival and are praying for a complete outpouring of His Spirit!

We look forward to seeing you and your family again, and I sit in anticipation for your response to this interesting question...

Your brother in Christ,

Me too but I jus been sitting paitently trying not to get too anxious...

I just came across this question and see that Steve still has not answered the question. :-) I can see both views. Half of my family celebrates Jesus, half falls into the Santa routine...I try each year to find a good, easy to understand "Jesus is the reason for the season" story to copy and add to the children's gifts to help them see Christmas as more than just presents. I buy the girls good Christian fiction books. I'm sure they think I'm weird, but I just look at myself as being a peculiar person.
Will there be an answer to the question?