OK so I tried to wait untill I got an answer to my last post b4 I did this one but I can't w8 ne longer...

Like the next day I had another bible argument *sigh* well in any case I was talking to a preacher & I told him Gal 2:16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.". Now in the King James wich is his favorite version it is the easiest to proove my point that it is not our faith in Jesus, but rather His faith in us, that saves us. Look at Eph 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." This tells me that the faith we have in him is not of ourselves but rather a gift from God.

We love Him because He first loved us (1 Jn 4:19) so it seems just as simple that we have faith in Him because He first had faith in us. I asked him for a scripture that says that God does not have faith in us but all he gave me was a scripture that was his reason why He shouldn't. I have a scripture that says why He should; Rom 8:29-30 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." So God sees us future-tense "glorified" so therefore why should He not have faith in us? Rom 8:31 "What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?"

Slade,

It is a popular teaching that God gives us the faith for salvation, and so it is not even necessary to have the faith within ourselves to be saved. So we do absolutely nothing. To some, faith is just another work, so even our faith is provided by God.

Unfortunately, I think this is a misunderstanding of the Scripture and pardon me, if this is not what you are implying. The way I believe the Ephesians passage is to be understood is that it is salvation that is the gift of God, rather than faith. If it is not necessary for man to have faith for salvation, there would be universal salvation. When we carry an interpretation to its end result, it is then that we discover the value of it or whether or not it has the ring of truth.

Does this "gift of faith" change how you view the Abrahamic covenant? Does your interpretation of these passages not diminish what the author of Hebrews says in Chapter 11? If it is God who gives us faith for salvation, etc. – what is the value of the example of these men and women? Is Hebrews 11 not meant to inspire us in our faith?

For the Galatians passage the NAS reads like this –

Galatians 2:16 "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified."

The Greek word translated "through" is "dia", meaning "through", "on account of" or "because of" – faith in Christ Jesus. I do not understand Greek well enough to know if the preposition would be better rendered "of" or "in". What, in your opinion, would be a valid justification for using "of" instead of "in" in this passage?

Back to your question -- Does God have faith in us? Yes, I believe that He does, else He would not have created us to have fellowship with Him. Do we disappoint Him? Most certainly. But He loved us enough to take the risk.

Knowing how much you love to study, Slade, I hope you will consider these comments and write back with more thoughts on this subject.

Blessings,

Chelki

I understand that our faith is an important part of the equation however I believe that our faith in God is not what saves us; Jesus' finished work on the cross is what does that - our faith in His finished work is what allows us to partake in the benifits (eternal life). Faith is the substance of things hoped for & the evidence of things not seen; when we decide to believe the evidence that God gave us then we are exercising our faith.

I understand that other versions are translated "in" I just belive that God used the "of" to tell me an important truth; that God has faith in us. However I did not do a detailed origonal word study of the verse yet so I have no reason other than I just prefer the KJV because Strong's concordance is keyed to it for one thing.

I don't care how God teaches you that He has faith in us, as long as you learn the lesson. I would rather have scripture to back up the position than just logic or reasoning. (Add not to his words lest thou be found a liar)

The scripture does say that God has given to every man the measure of faith (but not everybody believes the evidence of things not seen) & that Jesus is the author & finisher (or alpha & omega) of our faith wich tells me that the faith we have in him is a gift also. I am the way, the truth & the life no man comes to the father but by me; No one comes to the son lest the father draw him.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Slade,

Slade,

Yes, it is God who gives salvation and He does give us a measure of faith. Though I see faith as also man's part in accepting His gift. Is this the evidence of things not seen you refer to? I'm not sure why there would be a contradiction in this.

Blessings,

Chelki