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| <Kat>
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I would like to know what EXACTLY you think the New Covenant is - and EXACTLY with WHOM - preferably with details.
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I don't have all the details but the gist of the matter has to do with Jesus Christ creating a new & living way (Heb 10:20) for us to get to God. When Jesus was teaching (most of the red letters in the bible) I beleive he was laying out the new covenant & that the current dispensation has been referred to in the scriptures as the times of the gentiles. Like I pointed out the scriptures in acts where the apostles came to an agreement that the gentiles didnt have to get circumsized but that they needed to abstain from fornication, idolatry, & things strangled & from drinking blood, also when Peter had that vision of the sheet with all manner of beasts on it & Jesus said arise & kill, Peter said not so lord; for nothing unclean has touched my lips, but Jesus said what I have cleansed call not thou common; & although that was taken to mean that we can preach to the Gentiles, I beleive that it also means that we are allowed to eat pork, for instance in this new dispensation.
The dispensation started when Jesus said that the apostles were to go not only to the jews but also to the gentiles, baptizing them in the name of the Father & of the Son & of the Holy Ghost. If you want any more details they are all there in the new testament like I said the scripture says that the law was our schoolmaster leading us to christ, but now that we have christ we are not under the schoolmaster (Gal 3:24-25). You see the one true church of Christ is also refered to as the bride of christ & so the covenant that God (Jesus) made was between himself & his church/bride (Eph 5:23-32) it is a marriage covenant just like his relatonship with the Jews but his relationship with the gentiles is all new as compared to his relationship with the Jews. As I said before I don't have all the answers but I know that there is a term called the times of the gentiles (Lk 21:24) & that a lot of bible preachers are calling that time now, the mysterious time between the first 69 weeks & the last week of Daniels' 70 weeks. Because the way I heard it is that the 1st 69 weeks of Daniel's 70 week prophecy has already come to pass but the last week is the great tribulation wich hasn't happened yet so untill it does happen we are in the dispensation called the times of the gentiles, basically a time where God focuses his energy on saving gentiles with the gospel before turning his attention back to the jews during the great tribulation. The words of the new covenant aren't so black & white as the covenant of Moses for instacnce because The scripture said that the letter killeth but the spirit giveth life (2 Cor 3:6) & Jesus said that they that worship God must worship him in spirit and in truth (Jn 4:24). The scripturee says multiple times that the words of the old testament were good but the Jews took it the wrong way & taught for the commandments of God the doctrines of men (Mt 15:9). The new covenant has to do with when Jesus died the veil to the temple was ripped from top to bottom (Mt 27:51); that means from God's end down to us so God broke down the middle wall of partition between us (Eph 2:14-15) so we can boldly have access (Rom 5:1-2) & come to the throne of grace (Heb 4:16) now (2 Cor 6:2), we don't need to wait to the day of atonement to go to the holy of holies & we don't even need a human high preist to do it for us either because Jesus is our high preist (Heb 2:17) & he is on the right hand of the father (1 Pet 3:22) constantly making intercession for us (Heb 7:25). The new covenant has to do with God fulfilling prophecies like the one in Joel where it says that he will pour out his spirit upon all flesh there is another one in Amos 9:12 that says the heathen that are called by my name, so he is getting gentiles & blessing them with his spirit, a heretofore unknown thing in the ways that God related to man, if the spirit of God came to anyone it was a Jew before! Rom 3:2 says to them it was given the oracles of God & 9:4 says that to the jews pertain the adoption the glory & all kinds of important stuff, so for God to let a gentile do a miracle for instance would require a new covenant because such a thing is unheard of in the past. One of the important parts of the new covenant is that Jesus died to abolish animal sacrifice - God hates human sacrifice you read over & over how abortion or making your children pass through the fire is an abomination, you also read in hebrews that it is not possible for the blood of bulls & goats to take away sins (Heb 10:4), you read in 40 Ps 6 that sacrifice & offering thou didst not require - the scripture teaches that when Jesus died for us that it is sufficeient to wash away the sins of the whole world & we don't need another sacrifice ever on top of or in addidtion to what Jesus did [ He is able to save them to the uttermost (Heb 7:25)] because he achieved justification sacntification & the juxtaposition of righteousness from God to man (2 Cor 5:21) with his atoneing death once & for all (Heb 10:10) abolishing the power of death (Heb 2:14) & redeeming us from the curse of the law as it is written cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree (Gal 3:13). Also the new covenant was about being born again by the spirit of God (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 5:17; Gal 6:15; Eph 2:10; Rom 12:1-2; Eph 4:24; Col 3:10) I bet any much that there is heaps more to it & so if anyone else has any of the good points & issues about the new covenant between God and man given to us by Jesus; sometimes refered to as the times of the gentiles, please teach me. What do you think Steve? Do you think there is a new dispensation/covenant in effect now or are we still under the covenants of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David & Solomon? This message has been edited. Last edited by: Slade, "The more you know, the more you should realize how much you have to learn" Slade "God forbid that I should sin against the LORD in ceasing to pray for you" (1 Sam 12:23) "let such as love thy salvation say continually, Let God be magnified" (70 Ps 4) All scriptures are King James (Authorized) Version unless otherwise noted http://www.geocities.com/walkinlovelivebyfaith/ |
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| <Ardith>
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Shaul(Paul) also wrote: "'A new covenant.' He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." Hebrews 8:13.
Within 40 years of this epistle, the temple of Jerusalem was destroyed. Soon the Jews were dispersed throughout the various nations. The nation of Israel did not have a homeland again until the twentieth century -- 1900 years later! For centuries, the Jews were persecuted, forbidden to practice their religion in many communities. Even in America, cities used to pass laws ("blue laws") forbidding businesses to operate on Sundays, thereby effectively putting Jews out of business, since they would not conduct business on the Sabbath. If a Believer wanted to learn how to live under the Torah, it was nearly impossible, since Jewish synagogues were often closed down, and often Christians were not allowed to attend. Even if the Old Testament scriptures had been available in print, few could read until the sixteenth century. Many gentile languages were oral only. Even English was not a written language for a thousand years after Christ. How could God expect Christians to follow Torah? Yet the Lord promised He would not give up on Israel, and He has not. No other nation has held such unity throughout such a long dispersion and re-founded their original homeland centuries later! It is truly a work of an almighty creator. The existence of Israel today is strong proof that there is a God and He does care about His people! As for the Mosaic covenant, it is "obsolete," as Shaul said it was, as soon as Yeshua (Jesus) atoned for our sins on the cross. From that moment on, animal sacrifice was no longer needed or even received by God as atonement for sins. Christ Messiah is now our High Priest (Hebrews 9:11). If the old covenant were not obsolete, Jews could still find atonement for their sins by sacrificing animals and observing Torah rules. The law of Moses was "a shadow of things to come"(Hebrews 10:1). In Christ, we were "circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross." Colossians 2:11-14. Right after this statement, Shaul tells us "let no one judge you in food or drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance is of Christ." Colossians 2:16. We are to "seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth." Col. 3:1. Now, "there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all." Col. 3:10. In the following two chapters of Colossians, Shaul goes on to further instruct the early church as to how a Christian should behave. The emphasis is on character, rather than on what festivals to celebrate or what foods to eat. Shaul is writing to Christians-- Believers in Yeshua as the Messiah. If we Christians were expected to follow the Mosic law, here is a perfect place for Shaul to say so, clearly. Yet instead he says not to concern ourselves with the old laws but to focus on exhibiting the character implanted in us by the Holy Spirit when we accepted Christ Messiah as Lord and Saviour. He reiterates this theology more emphatically in his epistle to Galatians. We are under the New Covenant. He haswritten His laws on our hearts by indwelling us with His Holy Spirit . I may not always act like I know His laws because I still have free will, bad habits, and sin nature, and I live in a fallen world which constantly tempts me to disobey God. I no longer need a man to teach me His law. I KNOW it is wrong to steal, cheat, lie, and hate. I know because I feel the loss of my peace with God. I feel it when I grieve the Holy Spirit. A friend of mine accepted Christ a few years ago. As a brand-new Believer, she hadn't yet changed all of her wrong behaviors. One day she took a pen home from work, something many people in the world do without a twinge of conscience. But this time, she felt terribly guilty about it! She even heard a voice in her head say "Put the pen back." She couldn't get the guilt off her mind and finally returned the pen. Amazingly, when she told me about the incident, she told me "the devil" told her to put back the pen. "Why couldn't it have been God?" I asked. "Because it was only a pen!" she replied. I explained to her that God was speaking to her through the Holy Spirit to walk blameless because He wants her to be Holy. I know of others whom God has rebuked for littering, telling white lies, or speaking badly about another person even when no one (human) was listening! Since becoming a Christian I am more honest in my tax returns and obey the speed limits more than I ever did before. I even felt God lead me to throw out my astrology books before I even knew He tells us not to mess with astrology in the Bible. These are examples of how God has written His law on the believers' heart. Yes, we are grafted into the people of Israel, but under a New Covenant. When we take communion we affirm this Covenant. True, we have yet to be with the Lord in the flesh, which will happen upon His return to earth. In Jewish tradition and law, a betrothal is as binding as a marriage. To break such a betrothal, you had to get divorced. God's covenant with us is in the betrothal stage. It will be consummated at the "marriage supper of the lamb" referred to in Revelation 19:9. In the meantime, we have His Promise that He WILL wed Him. We know we can trust His Promise. It is His Covenant. |
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| <Ardith>
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That is, He will wed US, those who have entered into this new covenant with Him; Christians; Believers in Christ. The Church is the Bride of Christ.
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You know I used to get similar ideas about theology (as Kat has) when I read the old testament as a baby christian but my human pastors explained some of what I am telling you to me & other things like that other passage that says we are not under the law but under grace. Newho I had done a little more bible study & meditation while I was out & so I wanted to complete my answer from before & I don't know why nobody else answered either but thanks ardith for helping, she answerd some of what I left out.
Continuing my answer to the question what exactly is the new covenant & who was it given to - OK let me clear something up that I neglected to mention; that is that parts of all the old covenants are just as true & binding as the day that they were written or spoken by God. For example whenever it rains we still see a rainbow based on God's promise to us in the Noahic covenant that God will not destroy the world by water. Parts of some were changed by subsequent covenants for example the Adamic covenant we were given dominion over the animals but in the Noahic covenant that dominion was placed on the back burner so to speak because the fear of man was put into the animals because God allowed man to eat the animals. Then more rules were added to the eating of animals during the Mosaic covenant because now we can eat some but not others and a few obscure rules like the one that says not to boil a kid in its mother's milk wich I heard Jews interpet means dont eat a cheeseburger because it has beef & dairy in the same item. I have full faith that it is ok to eat a cheeseburger now after God told peter to not call what he has cleansed common. (But only if God doesn't tell you not to personally) remember God can talk to one person & what he tells him have nothing to do with anyone else, once he told Ezekiel to lay around naked & to eat dung. Now someone can take that out of context & say that the old covenant wants us to do just that - well I dont think so but in Ezekiel's case if he didnt do what God told him to do it would have been sin. For the rest of us probably laying around naked & eating dung would be a sin but God can give you instructions different from any instructions he ever gave anyone else, look at Noah nobody even knew what rain was or ever saw a boat & if Noah didn't follow God's instructions that seemed weird to everyone else on the planet to him it would have been sin. Look at Hosea told to take a wife from the whoredoms, that was sin for everyone else & against God's word, but not to the man who's job it is to do it. So God's covenant is written as someone pointed out in our hearts moreso than on a piece of paper. OK I am getting sidetracked from what I really wanted to tell you, but before I go on, let me add that I don't believe that the gentiles replaced the jews in any way, I know the scriptures about how we are grafted into the house of Iseral & adopted into the family of Abraham. The new covenant was instituted with one ritual taken from the old testament; namely "Anointing with oil" Also there are 2 new rituals "Laying on of hands" & "Baptism" There is also a ritual to be performed during one of the new covenant's holy days; namely the "Communion" or "Eucharist" wich is to take place (at least) once a year during passover, commemorating the last supper, & it should be a meal type of situation & not celebrated in the fashion that I see nowadays. The 2nd new covenant holy day is Ressurection sunday & although I am unsure if it always lands on easter sunday or even if it lands on sunday every year, but it is the same distance from passover every year & the jewish calendar is based on a lunar cycle & not a solar one like the calendar we use. The 3rd new covenant holy day is pentacost wich was 50 days after ressuerection sunday or his ascension. I don't know how it is celebrated now but I would think that it would be a day of solemn prayer for revival & the unleashing of the Holy Spirit. 3 more small points, the whole new testament is the new covenant that is why it is called the new testament as compared to the old testament. Also there is a point about the gospel being the new covenant, because if it was totally about the jews then the scripture wouldn't say that the jews are enemies for the gospels' sake. And the other passage in 1 Cor that says that the jews seek a sign but we preach christ crucified unto the jews a stumblingblock. And I may have neglected to stress who the contract of the new covenant was made with - The one true church of Christ, that's who! All the people in the earth who have Jesus in their heart, regadless of their denomination or any other distinction, these are they that the covenant is made with. That's why I can't stand a church that says if you don't belong to our church then you aren't going to heaven; because God talks to people all around the world, not only to you. Kat, I want to answer your point that you said about how God doesn't go into ambiguos contracts - you are absolutely right - when God gets ahold of you, he will let you know exactly what he wants you to know about your duties & responsibilities to him, of what duration your relationship will be, and if you are lucky some of your rewards if you are faithful to keep your end of the bargain, not to mention some of the consequences of failure as well; the same as he let me know when he got ahold of me - But sometimes when God gets ahold of you he doesn't give you all the information at once - remember when he grabbed Saul renamed Paul, what happened? He told him "Go here & talk to this guy" And it wasn't untill he obeyed that part that he got some more of the equation. I am not the pastor or a member of the board of this ministry or any other but the one that God gave me (Walk in Love, Live by Faith Ministries); I have had no formal training except one bible colledge course on the book of Romans from Calvary chapel bible colledge (I got an "A") God tought me (himself or used human pastors) everything I share with you, but I am not the boss of God's daily word ministries so I want to know what Steve or Shawn have to say; as they work here. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Slade, "The more you know, the more you should realize how much you have to learn" Slade "God forbid that I should sin against the LORD in ceasing to pray for you" (1 Sam 12:23) "let such as love thy salvation say continually, Let God be magnified" (70 Ps 4) All scriptures are King James (Authorized) Version unless otherwise noted http://www.geocities.com/walkinlovelivebyfaith/ |
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Ardith and Slade,
The following quote seems to be the premise of all of your other comments: “If the old covenant were not obsolete, Jews could still find atonement for their sins by sacrificing animals and observing Torah rules.†I'm searching ... Can you find for me scriptures in the OT saying the Jews would obtain salvation with sacrifices and observance of Torah? Blessings, Chelki This message has been edited. Last edited by: Chelki, Exodus 34:6 Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth;" "Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!" -- Jesus, the Messiah!, our salvation. |
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They couldn't as James said "Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness" jas 2:23 - just as in this dispensation, during the last ones salvation was the same by grace through faith - habbakuk said it too the just shall live by his faith.
I don't know the premise for Ardith's statements but mine is comming from a culmination of years of bible study because like I wanted to say earlier, I gotta take the whole bible, not just the parts I like. Also as is the case with this study God teaches me things as I teach others; so some of what I have here I didn't even know until I wrote it down for you guys. It just dawned on me that God's covenant that he writes in our heart is different from individual to individual, he customizes our covenant so to speak & the precedent for that is in the bible; every one that God had a covenant with he used different words: he didnt tell anyone precisely the same thing but he may have given them the same idea. Jesus said don't use dead repitition, God's word is alive & will come to every individual to meet them where they are at. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Slade, "The more you know, the more you should realize how much you have to learn" Slade "God forbid that I should sin against the LORD in ceasing to pray for you" (1 Sam 12:23) "let such as love thy salvation say continually, Let God be magnified" (70 Ps 4) All scriptures are King James (Authorized) Version unless otherwise noted http://www.geocities.com/walkinlovelivebyfaith/ |
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| <Ardith>
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Deuteronomy 30:15-21 sets out the requirement God gave the Jews:"See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply..." It goes on. It is pretty clear that God expected the nation of Israel to follow the Torah. The context of this verse is that Moses has just spent the day reading the law to the people.
If you are asking where the scriptures speak of "salvation," as in eternal life with God, I don't know that this is clearly set out in the Old Testament. In Ecclesiastes 12, Solomon states his belief that our spirit returns to God after death(12:7). From the context of this verse it is apparent that he thinks our relationship with God matters, for he writes, "Remember you Creator before the silver cord is loosed, or the golden bowl is broken...." (v.6). It is poetic and symbolic, but I think it is clearly implied that unless we seek God in life, we will be without God in death. In general, the Torah isn't clear that those without righteousness before the Lord go somewhere different after death. I think this is why the Pharisees and Saduccees of Jesus' day argued over this. If anyone has more info on this, I'd love to see it. |
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I remembered a point about the new covenant that I wanted to throw in here: Just that like the Mosaic covenant had a miraculous execution of the unfaithful (Remember some guys tried to offer strange incense that the Lord didnt perscribe?) Well in Acts chapter 5 there is the same type of judgement used to confirm the new covenant.
Also I have one main reason why there has to be a new covenant that supercedes the Mosaic covenant: Namely that if we were under the Mosaic covenant then I would not be allowed to even learn the truth of God; let alone preach & teach it, because I am an illigitamate child & the fatherless (bastards) are not allowed into the congretgation. So if Jesus didn't nail the ordinance against me to his cross & redeem me from the curse of the law then I would not be able to tell you the glorious works of God today. I thank God for his new covenant & I praise him that I am a part of it; he chose to fulfill another scripture in my ears - the one that says he setteth the solitary in families, because he adopted me into his family. =) "The more you know, the more you should realize how much you have to learn" Slade "God forbid that I should sin against the LORD in ceasing to pray for you" (1 Sam 12:23) "let such as love thy salvation say continually, Let God be magnified" (70 Ps 4) All scriptures are King James (Authorized) Version unless otherwise noted http://www.geocities.com/walkinlovelivebyfaith/ |
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Ardith and Slade,
Sorry, I did not mean to sound unfriendly. I appreciate your responses. I have searched the OT for God’s means of salvation before Jesus’ coming to earth to die, and the Scriptures seem to indicate to me that it is by His grace, coupled with man’s faith in Him. (Not only like Abraham, but Noah, Enoch, Issac, Jacob, Joseph, David, Daniel, Esther, Ruth, Isaiah, Jeremiah and so many more!) I have not found any scripture that indicates otherwise and wondered if you had. So, the Torah was for some other reason, yet still very important to God. The original question Kat proposed was concerning the “new†covenant. One thing I am quite sure of is that God’s overall covenant is a commitment to save all of those who will respond to Him in the proper way -- with a true faith. Then we will be His People, and He will be our God. Blessings, Chelki Exodus 34:6 Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth;" "Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!" -- Jesus, the Messiah!, our salvation. |
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Chelki, I dont think you sound the least bit unfriendly, you sound like my sibling in Christ (I don't know if you are male or female)
I think the torah has to do with God proving his love for us - most of those instructions were for health reasons, the sex laws were to prevent std's, the food laws were to prevent food poisoning (before refridgerators pork could kill you) & there was that other rule that paul mentions in the new testament - dont muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn - so God cares for animals too - or the humans who own them, (we wouldnt want our ox in such a bad mood because he was hungry to hurt someone) The sabbath was all about our health too because God didnt make our bodies to work 7 days a week so he said dont work on the sabbath (Didn't Jesus say that the sabbath was made for man, not the other way around?) So most of the torah was to prove that scripture in peter that says God cares for us. By the way, I was taught that Paul is one of the most likely candidates to be the author of the book of hebrews, but that there is not enough evidence to back that up, so I say something like "the author of hebrews" or "possibly paul said in hebrews"... I just wanted to say that I felt a bit discouraged, talking to Kat is like talking to a Jehovah's witness - I mean I did all this bible study, got all my point's together, made all my logical arguments, backed it all up with scripture, tried to present it in a clear fashion but the intended audience couldn't recieve it. Kat seems like she is still just as much a legalist as she was 2 weeks ago. So I say in my heart what was the point, why did I just waste my breath & valuable time? But then God told me that if I didn't do this study then I wouldn't know as much as I do about it, & would be less prepared to give an answer, a reason for the hope that lies within me. And also a friend who I shared my notes with said that he was able to get some benefit from my effort so I guess I can stop feeling useless. "The more you know, the more you should realize how much you have to learn" Slade "God forbid that I should sin against the LORD in ceasing to pray for you" (1 Sam 12:23) "let such as love thy salvation say continually, Let God be magnified" (70 Ps 4) All scriptures are King James (Authorized) Version unless otherwise noted http://www.geocities.com/walkinlovelivebyfaith/ |
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Slade,
I agree with you that the Torah was written from a heart of love and is all about love. I know how you feel about feeling as though you have wasted your time and energy on someone who has not really listened. However, I would not discount that what words you have said that are truth can be received. In Christianity there are many opposing viewpoints, but I think it is the desire of everyone on this board to know the truth. So even though it is sometimes hard (for me anyway) to maintain an open mind once I have come to a conclusion, I know there are things to be learned in exchanging thoughts on what we believe to be true. Personally, I would not call Kat a legalist. She did back up her comments with scripture. A legalist is not someone who is or tries to be obedient to God’s Word, but one who tries to conform to a strict code with the PURPOSE of justifying his salvation. This is not God’s way because it leaves out grace. Legalism is a matter of the heart and this is why God asked the Israelites to obey and follow His instructions with a circumcised heart -- so hopefully their obedience would not turn into legalism. All too often, they failed to even obey! In my opinion (and it seems yours too) God’s Torah was not given to them for their salvation, but to help them draw near to Him, give them revelation of their coming Deliverer and help them to live their life with wisdom. Blessings, Chelki Exodus 34:6 Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth;" "Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!" -- Jesus, the Messiah!, our salvation. |
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I was concerned for her & she sounded like a legalist to me because she said something about new testament gentile chritians participating in Yom Kippur wich if I am not mistaken is the day of atonement wich one goat gets killed & the other (The scape goat) gets let free the one day a year that the high preist could go into the holy of holies (with a rope tied around his ankle in case he died they could drag him out) & make sacrifices for the peoples' sins. As I said earlier in my speil, we don't have to wait for the day of atonement to go to the holy of holies because when jesus died the templke veil was rent from top to bottom. I thought a legalist is someone who puts too much emphasis on the obedience of unnessisary old testament rules contained in the law of moses. I know some of those laws are just as good for us now as the day they were written but for instance the one about tattoos - is that one a nessisary law for today? Is God going to not talk to you because you got a tattoo? I don't think so, even tho there is an old testament law that says make no cuttings in your flesh & that could mean dont get a tattoo I dont think God cares about that kind of manini (small) stuff today.
My new preaching goes like this: Just like how the devil is like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour, God is also wandering around the earth seeking something, but he is like a merchant, seeking someone to make a deal (covenant) with. God is a covenant makeing God & he is waiting to find someone who will take the time to listen & talk to him & make a deal - doesn't matter what it is, it could be make a boat like Noah, could be set some slaves free like Moses, it could be anything but God is in the covenant makeing business. So like it says in the psalm 95, 8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work. 10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: 11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest. There is a point I would like to bring up - Isa 30:15 - "For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not" If you remember I think it was Elijah who had to watch the lightning , the storm, the earthquake, the thunderings go by but when God talked to him he used a still, small voice. We have to calm down & be at inner peace, we can't get distracted by Janet jackson's nipple slip, or whatever they are talking about on tv, & we can't be so busy in our own minds so as to not hear God when he talks to us. I mean Moses was so busy in his own head that God had to set a bush on fire just to get his attention so he could talk to him! I heard prayer is a 2 way conversation - so take the time to listen to God sometimes. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Slade, "The more you know, the more you should realize how much you have to learn" Slade "God forbid that I should sin against the LORD in ceasing to pray for you" (1 Sam 12:23) "let such as love thy salvation say continually, Let God be magnified" (70 Ps 4) All scriptures are King James (Authorized) Version unless otherwise noted http://www.geocities.com/walkinlovelivebyfaith/ |
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Brad,
I can see that you have a heart for the Lord! I would just appeal to you to keep studying and learning the Word of God. I learn something new almost every day, though it may be insignificant, it brings joy to my heart that there is still so much more! I loved your quote of Psalm 95 and Isaiah 30:15. I believe that every commandment God gave was for a reason and each commandment says something of His character, even if we do not understand. If legalism is obeying certain rules that others do not think are valid anymore -– who is to decide what to obey? I think you would agree that it is God and what He has shown us in His Word. Consider the story of Naaman – what a simple thing he was asked to do, but almost missed being healed! Blessings, Chelki Exodus 34:6 Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth;" "Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!" -- Jesus, the Messiah!, our salvation. |
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Who's Brad?
If I am lucky then I will copy you & learn something every day & if I am really lucky it will be some truth of God from his word. If I am more lucky I will be able to share it with someone else & if I am even more lucky I will be able to apply it to my own life. Wich reminds me, I don't beleive in luck, I believe in the sovernty of God - if I ever do say "good luck" I mean God bless you. (I know the passage in Eccl 9:11 that sas "Time and chance happeneth to them all", but I focus on the ones that say stuff like "Declaring the end from the beginning" Isa 46:10) I aggree with you that God will tell us what rules we need to obey; As Ardith said "He has written His laws on our hearts by indwelling us with His Holy Spirit (2 Cor 1:22) ... I no longer need a man to teach me (1 Jn 2:27) His law. I KNOW it is wrong to steal, cheat, lie, and hate. I know because I feel the loss of my peace with God. I feel it when I grieve the Holy Spirit." I looked up that passage & that was a heavy one - the guy had a sour attitude but his servant convinced him to humble himself. That part reminds me a little of the time the Egyptian asked to get baptized in acts, The part that hit me hard was when Elisha's right hand man got greedy & got Naaman's leprosy that part reminds me of the passage in 1 Cor 9:18 that says "What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel." This message has been edited. Last edited by: Slade, "The more you know, the more you should realize how much you have to learn" Slade "God forbid that I should sin against the LORD in ceasing to pray for you" (1 Sam 12:23) "let such as love thy salvation say continually, Let God be magnified" (70 Ps 4) All scriptures are King James (Authorized) Version unless otherwise noted http://www.geocities.com/walkinlovelivebyfaith/ |
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Slade,
I’m sorry for calling you the wrong name – I wrote that in haste, but I’m glad you knew it was for you.  Your statement about needing no man to teach you is a little bothersome to me. And that is why I have not said much about what I believe the new covenant to be, because there is a part of it that I do not understand – and that is the part that says we no longer need to teach our neighbor the Lord, because everyone will know Him. You have tied the 1 John passage to that, which deals with the anti-Christ spirit, which John says is already in the world at the time of this writing. 1 John 2:27-29 27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him. 28 Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him. I do believe that we have an anointing, but I think we need to be careful saying we can avoid another man’s teaching (unless of course, it does not agree with the scripture). What about the scripture that says there is wisdom in a multitude of counselors? or How can a man learn, except someone teach him? The same is true for what we have heard from the Holy Spirit. If it does not agree with the scripture, then it must not have been from the right spirit. That is the reason I concentrate upon the Word, so when the Holy Spirit does nudge me and teach me, I can be sure that it is from Him. Do you or anyone have an explanation for this: LXE Jeremiah 31:33 For this is my covenant which I will make with the house of Israel; after those days, saith the Lord, I will surely put my laws into their mind, and write them on their hearts; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people. 34 And they shall not at all teach every one his fellow citizen, and every one his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them: for I will be merciful to their iniquities, and their sins I will remember no more. Blessings, Chelki Exodus 34:6 Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth;" "Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!" -- Jesus, the Messiah!, our salvation. |
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Well just like the other one in 1st John can be taken out of context & blow your theology out of wack - 1 Jn 5:19 "And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness." so too can 1 Jn 2:27 - we gotta take the whole scripture, not just our favorite parts - God appoints teachers 2 Tim 1:11 "Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles." 1 Cor 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues." 1 Cor 12:7-11 "7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will." (Why would there be a word of knoledge & a word of wisdom gifts if we weren't to tell someone?) Rom 10:13-14 "13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" I believe that there has to be a balance - God can speak to us through nature Rom 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" and he can speak to us directly 1 Sam 3:4 "That the LORD called Samuel: and he answered, Here am I." and he can use human teachers Acts 8:30-35 "30And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. 32The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: 33In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. 34And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 35Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus." Paul claimed to not have been taught the Gospel by man Gal 1:11--19 "11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 13For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: 14And profited in the Jews’ religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. 15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace, 16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: 17Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. 18Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. 19But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s brother." 1 Cor 2:4-5 "4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: 5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God." Peter said "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty." 2 Pet 1:16 I always focus on 1 Jn 2:27 because I am scared to blindly follow a man; Jesus said in Mt 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." Hos 4:6 says "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" so when someone tells me something I copy the folks from Berea because Acts 17:11 "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." they were good examples & Jesus said "Search the scriptures" Jn 5:39. That ties into what you said "If it does not agree with the scripture, then it must not have been from the right spirit" & Isa 8:20 "T |