Hi all

I was wondering, is it possible to sell you soul after you have given your heart to Jesus?

And...What does it really mean to "sell your soul"?

Dear Olivia,

Your question actually has several questions in it. Let's break it down.

1. Can we "sell" our soul? We cannot sell our soul. We are born in sin. There is no such thing as an innocent baby. Before we accept Jesus Christ as our savior, we serve the devil and his dominions. As such, we are children of the devil until we give our hearts and minds to God.

Consider John 8:42-44:

John 8

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

We do not own our soul, nor does the devil own it. God owns our soul, for He has bought it with the blood of Jesus Christ on the Cross at Calvary.

Consider 1 Corinthians 6:19-20:

1 Corinthians 6

19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

God own's our soul. It is our choice to make where our soul spends eternity.

2. Can a person, who has accepted Christ into their heart as savior, later "sell out" and serve satan? Another way of asking the question is" Can a Christian be demon possessed? Or perhaps a third way of asking the same question is this: "Can a Christian lose their salvation?"

Christian demoninations will, unfortunately bicker about this until the Lord returns, but scripture tells us that no, a Christian cannot lose his salvation. A Christian cannot "sell out" and be possessed by the devil.

When we come to Christ, the Holy Spirit enters into our hearts to inhabit. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit makes the believer a temple of the Living God, as Paul exhorts in 2 Corinthians 6:14-18:

2 Corinthians 6

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty

Olivia, our salvation is sealed until the redemption of our soul, as scripture teaches in Ephesians:

Ephesians 1

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

This does not mean that the enemy, satan, cannot hinder and attempt to thwart God's plan for us. We all know that he can indeed. Satan, however, is limited at what he can do to a Christian. The New Testament contains no reference of a Christian being possessed by the devil.

Consider these scriptures as well:

1 John 5:18-19

1 John 5
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

And one of my favorites, Romans 8:38-39

Romans 8
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I know, I know, what about "backsliders"? Our choices do not change the nature of God or His Word. Either "backslider's" have never really made a sincere committment to Christ, or they are choosing to simply commit voluntary sin. We all have that choice. I am inclined to believe that those who choose to walk away, seemingly without conscience or remourse, never really knew Christ as their savior at all and their "backsliding" is no more than a resumption of their walk they began when they were born in sin.

Finally, you ask what does it mean to "sell your soul to the devil". Since we cannot do that, the question is moot. We all know people who appear to have given themselves completely over to evil, worship of idols, false gods, etc. These people, again, were born with a sin nature and have simply choosen to live in a different direction, a different path. Unfortunately, tragically, their path is one of destruction and eventual torment and eternal horrid pain.

Our commission is to share God with them and give them the choice of life in paradise with Christ. You do that, Olivia, when you sing in your worship team. God Bless You in your ministry.

Nick P.

[This message was edited by Nick P. on November 07, 2003 at 08:19 AM.]

Nick,
That was wonderful put.

For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Jeremiah 29:11

~Amazed By His Grace~
~Tanya~

Thanx Nick!

Olivia,
You sell your soul when you refuse YHVH and/or Yashua. HOWEVER, it canNOT be taken away from you by any other entity, no one (or nothing) can forcibly take it from you, but you CAN give it away freely (as Esau gave away his birthright, so can we give away our salvation). As long as you love YHVH and Yashua, you can't simply "lose" it, you can't misplace it, it can't be stolen. The only way to lose it is to reject YHVH and/or Yashua. I know several "christians" who have done just that and unfortunately for them they don't know the trouble ahead because church teaching is that you can't lose it no matter what you do. that's NOT true and there will be wailing when they discover THAT bit of church fallicy. don't always believe what you hear from ANYONE, check it against the scriptures (old AND new testaments, NOT just the new) and if it "ain't there" it isn't right no matter how good it feels or sounds. READ READ READ and double check EVERYTHING against the scriptures. YHVH bless..
Kat

If it is possible for someone to loose their salvation then Jesus is a lair because he said that I will not loose even one of the little one that the father has put into my hand (Jn 10:28; Mt 18:14). The only answer that makes any sence is that people who turn away from god were not planted on good ground but they were the rocky or roadside ground or among thorns (Mt 13:18-23), also the other passage says let the tares grow up with the wheat & we will separate them after (Mt 18:24-30). It is hard to look at someone who you went to church with for a long time & who knows the bible better than you turn away from God, I just have to have faith that Jesus wasn't lying when he said I never knew you - even to guys who were casting out devils in his name; & when Jesus was casting them out & was accused of working for the devil, he said satan doesnt cast out satan or his house will not stand. So it is not a precedent for the devil to cast out himself but never the less some people who cast out demons wont know God.

Slade,
I think I was pretty clear when I said you can't "lose" your salvation. It can't be accidently lost nor misplaced or stolen (which is what Yashua was talking about - Satan cannot steal our souls away from us) but it CAN be "sold" - as Esau sold his birthright, so we can "sell" our soul - we can GIVE UP our salvation but it can't be wrested from us. We can give it up by giving up on YHVH or Yashua.

Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 5:21-23
Test all things; hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil. Now my the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (if salvation can't be given up, why would we need that blessing from Paul???)

2Thessalonians 2:3,4 states "Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. (note the falling away comes before the judgement day....that's the falling away of those who consider themselves saved but who aren't because of their rejection of YHVH/Yashua)

1 Peter 5:8 tells us to "be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour."

2 Peter 3:17 says "You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from you own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked."
(lest you fall from your own steadfastness???)

1John 4:1 says "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world."

I'm not talking about a little backsliding, but when someone refutes that Yashua is YHVH or decides that he just doesn't need the "cruch" of YHVH, THEN that person gives up his salvation. It's the only way to "lose" it but it's gone when that happens. If you accept satan as your lord and master, YHVH will remove you from the Book of Life and that's what all the "wailing and gnashing of teeth" is talking about...those who THINK they're ok but aren't in the Book.
Shalom,
Kat

I dont believe in anything but eternal salvation anyone who "gave up" or sold their soul or salvation was actually a tare & not wheat & Jesus will tell him I never knew you Any other doctrine does not compute

There may be a line in the bible about getting your name taken out of the book of life but you gotta remember that God is beyond time & has already predestinated everything, we cannot "surprise" God by loosing our salvation & make him erase your name from the book of life; if it is not there in the end of time then it was never there in the fisrt place. God doesn't make mistakes & his word is so powerful that he makes whatever he says reality if he says you are saved, you are! Simple as that because God can't lie.

Another thing is that there is only one unforgiveable sin, namely blasphemy of the Holy Ghost; now I have heard a few explinations & interpetations but I beleive that the main one is unrepentence/rebellion because if you repent he is faithful & just to forgiveus all our unrighteousness so taking it to its conclusion - all unsaved people must be commiting blasphemy of the Holy Ghost because that is the only unforgiveable sin and only an unfogiveable sin would prevent you from being saved. Because salvation is a free gift offered to all, but only those who receive it get the benefits thereof.

Saying that Esau was a precedent for the ability to loose your salvation or sell it or whatever doesn't hold much water with me even though I take an Esau passage & apply it to repentence "He saught it bitterly with tears" God predestinated all that too, it says the elder shall serve the younger. When Esau lost his birthright I got 2 main lessons from that & neither were that I could sell my salvation, one was that sometimes you have to pay the consequences for your sins or shortcommings, whereas some other times God can have mercy & spare you from the consequences & the other lesson was how to not approach God's will with the heelcatcher attitude; because God could have given Jacob the birthright without him having to scamm it & conive it out of his brother because the blessing was comming from God, not his human father anyway. But he didnt have the faith of Abraham or whoever had the faith to let God do things his way like David for instance not taking the kingdom of Saul sometime after he was anointed king but he waited for God's timimg.

This is the same note I posted to a different question...

Consider this on the issue of Eternal Security: Why do we really have the debate? Is it because I want to know if I'm secure so I can become lax in my relationship with the Lord and know I can still get to Heaven? No, of course not! If I understand the gift I have been given and how much I'm loved by my Heavenly Father, I'm going to get up every day and strive to live a life which honors Him. This issue of whether or not I need to live this way to maintain my Salvation becomes an academic exercise. If a man truly loves his wife, he's not going to have debates about how much he can sin and still keep his love - he's not going to debate the fine points of being eternally secure in his relationship - he's going to cherish his wife and seek to please her. Why? Because he loves her!

I've seen this issue divide churches and cause separation between good Christian friends. I decided several years ago that this is a non-issue. Of course, most people have chosen sides and will disagree with me. Every passage in the Bible is true and the fact that there has been so many debates between very intelligent people simply points to our inability to fully understand. We are urged to live a life worthy of our calling so I've decided to live a worthy life to the best of my ability and rest in His grace for the many areas where I fall short. It might be a better use of our time to focus our effort on teaching people how much love was involved in the sacrifice of Christ - and encouraging them to accept this love and return it with all their heart.

Steve!

ALL I CAN SAY IS AMEN!!!

Thank you for your words of encouragement.

There is alot of work to be done here on earth our temporary assignment,until we rejoice in Glory!

I just want to fix my eyes on the Lord and stead fast on what I can DO FOR THE Lord.

I may change day to day, but God is unchangeably faithful.

Psalm 89:1-2 1 I will sing of the LORD's great love forever;
with my mouth I will make your faithfulness known through all generations.
2 I will declare that your love stands firm forever,
that you established your faithfulness in heaven itself.

God's Love Never Fails

1st thess 5:21-23 my answer is because we are in time, although God is beyond time we need encouragement & comfort, I was taught that God sees us future tense "glorified" be we don't see that so he tells us that he will preserve us to comfort us that we will indeed be glorified in the future.

Steve,

I appreciate and understand your comments in regard to debate.

But I would like to encourage those who may suffer loss of a child. My comments are not in relation to whether one can lose their soul, having come to a knowledge of their Saviour, but one of “original sin”. Recently a couple I know lost their infant son soon after birth. The family was devastated! If they could not have the faith to believe this baby will be safe in the arms of the Father – how much more would they feel the pain – and could it be something they could ever resolve? Though that does not justify a belief this baby will be with them in heaven, I believe there is reason to believe so from the Scriptures.

It is my belief we are born with a “sin nature”, not with sin. Sin by definition is “missing the mark” – not something that I believe an infant has any knowledge of. And until one reaches an age when they can be responsible and accountable for their sin, God’s grace covers their actions.

I think this is important for young parents to know, so they can go on with their lives knowing that our Heavenly Father is not only sovereign, but also full of mercy and grace.

Blessings,

Chelki

Wow. This is a very meaningful debate. I do not agree that is in a non-issue. It may have divided churches in the past, but so too did Jesus divide the Jews. Truth is a two-edged sword. It can save, as a scalpel in surgery, or kill, as a bayonet in war.

I do not believe innocent children go to Hell. Nor do animals or the severely retarded. It takes a certain level of intelligence to understand that we must repent of sin. God does not hold those who cannot understand accountable for their sin. But this is a side issue.

If we truly believe we cannot lose salvation once it is obtained through faith in Christ, then we must think we are better than the angels, who rebeled against God and were thrown out of Heaven. They were created without original sin, yet they sinned and lost their place in God's Kingdom.

God knows you cannot force someone to love you. Salvation is a choice. I made that choice freely. I did not lose my free will when I accepted Christ. If I do not have the free choice to walk away from God, then I am held by God's control, not His love. God is not a control freak. I am not a robot or a puppet. If I were, this Christian walk would be a lot easier than it is!

Most of the letters in the New Testament are addressed to the issue of keeping one's salvation. Paul, James, Peter and John warn us about false teachings, fornication, idolatry, gossip, and many other sins that can cost a believer his salvation. Read 1 Peter 4:1-12, Hebrews 11:25, 1 John 5:16, James 2:24, and
1 Corinthians 5:5, just to name a few. And what about Jesus' famous parable about the seeds of wheat? Some of the seed found good soil and grew, BUT "THORNS GREW UP AND CHOKED THEM" Matthew 13:7.

Jesus interprets this as follows: "this is the one who hears the Word, but the cares of the world and the lure of wealth choke the word, and it yields nothing." Matthew 13:22. Even of the shallow-rooted, our Lord says, "such a person has no root, but endures only for a while... that person immediately FALLS AWAY." Matthew 13: 21.

This is why Paul urges us to run the race to the end, to fight the good fight. Why else would James write, "..if anyone among you wanders from the truth and is brought back by another...whoever brings back a sinner from wandering will save the sinner's soul from death..." James 5:19. It is impossible to "wander" from somewhere you never were.Obviously, he is referring to a backslidden believer.

I myself was such a wanderer once. I know for a fact that I was saved as a teen because I spoke in tongues and translated it into words about Jesus straight from the Bible! I was completely filled with the Holy Spirit, loved Jesus, and had totally repented of sin and surrendered to Him. Yet I was was young and undiscipled, and I was enticed by sin to renounce my salvation. I recanted my repentence and told God I was glad I had sinned! How then could I still be saved?

Years later, the Lord drove me to my knees. He let me sin until my world was shattered. Then at last I returned to Him. I asked Jesus to be my Lord and Saviour again, and He took me back! He is so good! Now I know the value of His priceless gift. I remember my years of backsliding. I know I was saved, backslid, and saved again. I remember the emptiness of my life without Him. I know He now lives in me anew. I will never leave Him again.

I think one reason I backslid is that I really didn't understand sin nature, and I didn't truly understand all that Jesus did for me. Now that I really understand all that,were I to renounce Christ again,I believe I could not find my way back so easily. There are many like I once was - saved, but not firmly rooted,or choked out by the cares of the world. Take heart,Jesus will take you back! He is faithful even when we are not.

Think about Peter. He denied Christ three times! Yet our Lord restored to him His salvation. Peter was backslidden. Yet, like me, I think he really didn't understand the power of sin or the authority of Christ that first time. When Jesus said he would not let "one of these" He had discipled be lost, He was referring to the eleven apostles remaining after Judas betrayed Him.

Research into the 16th century Reformation will cast more light on this issue of eternal security verses backsliding. John Calvin is largely responsible for the teachings on eternal security, yet his teaching was misunderstood. He never said it was impossible to lose your salvation, just that it wasn't as easy as the Roman Catholic Church of that day said it was.

Understand that in that day and age,the Roman Catholic Church dominated most of Europe politically as well as spiritually. They taught that it was possible to lose your salvation in lots of ways: not attending mass, not confessing sins weekly, failing to observe Catholic Holy Days, etc., etc. The people of that day were constantly in fear of going to Hell for the slightest error. Calvin wanted to assure them that God is not so harsh. You CAN lose your salvation, but not as easily as they had been taught. Throughout the centuries, his teachings have been distorted to the point that now a "Calvinist" is one who believes in eternal security for the believer - that he can go out and murder people in cold blood without repentence, but still go to Heaven because he accepted Christ at one time. The Bible simply does not teach this. In fact, neither did Calvin.

To say,"if someone backslides then they were never saved in the first place" is a nice way of refusing to examine the question. It is impossible to prove. Yet in my case, I KNOW I was saved and I KNOW I backslid. I KNOW I am saved now anew. God certainly proved to ME it is possible! I pray none of you need this lesson! Hold fast to Jesus! If you hold onto Him, He WILL NOT let you go.

Finally, think on this: Many of the early Christians, including the apostles, were tortured, killed, or imprisoned because THEY WOULD NOT RENOUNCE CHRIST. If they couldn't lose their salvation, why not just renounce Christ and be released? To deny the possibility of backsliding is to dishonor the death of many precious saints who paved the way for the church of today.

Ardith - Very good post!

My reason for calling this a non-issue and encouraging people not to debate is that I believe it detracts us from what is really important. It's been a distraction in the church for several hundred years. I fully agree that people are misled if they believe they can say a prayer once and then continue in a life of sin and still believe they are saved. But we detract from the true issue if we continually tie obedience and surrender to the maintaining of our Salvation. I want to encourage people to follow Christ and love Him with ALL their heart because they truly love Him and understand how much He loves them. I believe we can effectively teach this without ever bringing up the issue of eternal security. I believe it's possible for both sides to agree to surrender their whole life to Christ. If we can do this we will never even face the issue of eternal security except in discussions such as this.

I have one curiosity question. I admire the way you have thought through and presented your position. In your particular case, how have you resolved the issue of Hebrews 6:4-6. I'm truly curious because I've had to answer this question with others.

Hebrews 6:4-6
"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."

I thank you for your time and your input to this board.

Steve,
I know you asked Ardith about that passage from Hebrews but late last night (well, ok EARLY this morning) after I read your question, I realized it was a passage that really bothered me, because I didn't know what it meant. But as I climbed into bed, praying for understanding and pondering, YHVH spoke and I believe He provided me with the explanation.
Shaul had been using the analogy of childhood to explain the "growth process" a believer must go through as he increases in faith. YHVH told me that this is a continuation of that analogy. Hebrews 6:1 says "Therefore, LEAVING the discussion of the ELEMENTARY principles of Christ, let us GO ON to perfection, not laying AGAIN the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God." He's telling those he wrote to that they've already passed the initial belief "age" (birth) and now it was time to learn to "roll over"(so to speak-since that is the next stage). He's telling them they don't have to worry about going ALL the way back if they slip up, but rather that they would start from where they left off.


When a child is conceived, it lives in perfect innocence and security. Then comes the day of it's birth. This can be traumatic or relatively easy, but for the child of a traumatic birth, that child may want to go back to the womb, but if that were possible, it would cause it's mother to repeat her labor.
The child CAN'T go back to the starting point, he must continue on and grow and learn.
In the same way, a believer is reborn in Yashua and if he backslides, may want to go back to the "womb" of a lack of knowledge, "innocense" of the ways of YHVH, the "security" of not knowing and thus not caring. But if a believer DOES backslide, that lack of knowledge doesn't return. The believer MUST rededicate himself to YHVH and then continue from the place he left off, growing and learning. It must be thus, or he would be continuely crucifying Yashua as a baby returning to the womb would be continuely causing it's mother to labor.
The believer must go on and learn to sit up, crawl, stand, walk and eventually run. And at each stage, he can never go back completely to the way he was before he reached that stage. Ever tried to get a toddler to lay still for more than oh, 30 seconds or so??? It's almost impossible (unless they are VERY sick) and so it must be for the believer, he can't lay still, he can't go back, he can only go on and learn MORE new things...to skip and hop and jump (obviously for joy in YHVH) and so on, always growing, then maturing, and eventually maybe even become truely wise and as righteous as a human is able to be (never perfect of course, but hopefully somewhat close to it). This is the word YHVH gave this poor sinner this morning.
I hope it clarifies it for you as it did for me.
Shalom,
Kat

I believe that the issue of backsliding & loosing your salvation are 2 different issues. I beleive totally that what hebrews is saying is true - that it is impossible to renew ourselves again unto repentance - I may not understand it but I beleive that God doesn't lie. I think that a backslider whom God has predestinated that he will return & repent before the day of his death was saved all along although he may have not felt like it while he was backsliding but God was there the whole time bringing him back to God (remember the footprints poem?) However the person who backslides & never comes back or backslides repeatedly & the day of his death he is not right with God, that person never knew god but was only pretending. Look at Jude 4 - certian men crept in unawares... like a tare they looked ok but the whole time they were destined for destruction. Like I said God sees us future tense - glorified so those that are his it is impossible for him to loose because he will seek those lost sheep until he finds them. You raised a bunch of good scriptures & how I reconcile those with the idea that Jesus can loose none that the father has delivered into his hand is just this, like I said before we are in time but God is beyond time, although he sees us future tense, we see ourselves present tense & we need encouragement that we should stay on the right track, because of the sin nature that was mentioned & the problems that we face when we fulfill the ending of romans chapter 7.

Ardith I have faith that children under the age of responsibility (I am not sure when that is, I heard the jews say it is 13 & thats why they have bar mitzvas at that time I feel it may be customized according to the individual) go to heaven (along with miscarriages & abortions) because Jesus said in 3 Gospels to suffer children to come unto him for of such is the kingdom of heaven (and that one is totally out of context because he was saying to have his disciples stop bothering the kids who wanted a closer look at Jesus). However I have no faith in our pets going to heven or hell because only man it was said has the breath of God in his nostrils making him tick, that part of us from God that makes us tick is like God, immortal & that is why everyone has eternal life it is just the question of where are you going to spend it? Death is the consequence of sin, one of the definitions of sin is separation from God so when a sinner dies without the atoning blood of Jesus they will have eternal death (separation from God) as a result. I cannot believe that hell is temporary because of Isa 1:31 wich says that the fire will not be quenched & Isa 66:24 wich says their worm (or torturer) will not die & their fire won't be quenched. Also Rev 20:10 wich says that the torment will go on forever and ever. Because animals were not promised to have the breath of life that we have (they have a breath of life but not nessisarily the breath of God in their nostrils) I cannot assume that they are immortal like us, but the scripture does say that the lion & the lamb will lie together & the child will put his hand in the adder's nest & not get bitten. So when we reach the new heaven & the new earth there will be animals but I do not believe God's word teaches that they will be the same ones we know now. Now just like I don't know how I will enjoy heaven if my brother who doesn't like Jesus isn't there I don't know how I will like heaven without my favorite dog either but God promises us no more tears so I just take him at his word. I have no opinion about the severly retarted, it says that we all must stand before the judgement seat of God so I have faith he will give them justice.

Wow kat thank you for praying to God about hebrews chapter 6 & sharing your answer it looks really really good & I will pray myself to see if that is exactly how it is; it totally makes sense. But I can't stop thinking that it was saying what I used to say that it was saying; perhaps it is saying both things although what we were saying was not too far apart but yet miles away - I was stuck on that passage because it looked like it was saying for me not to repent until I was sure that I wouldn't do the sin again; but God does want us to repent & come to him but how many times I quit tobacco for instance & went back to it against the command of my father (I am not saying that tobacco is bad for everyone but God told me personally to quit & I quit again last night thanks to the grace of God & his strength) so I hate saying I repent of something that I will do tomorrow because I am crucifying the son of God afresh & putting him to an open shame & how can I do that when Christ has died once & he dieth no more? All I know is that what you said sounds just as true as what I was saying so perhaps it is possible to have both yours (the most likely intended interpetation) & mine (wich could very well be a misquote to make a godly point).

Good discussion, everybody! I love these issues that get us praying and studying, really studying, our Bibles!

As to Hebrews 6:4, I believe it warns us that there is a point at which a believer has such complete and intimate knowledge of Christ and what it means to be saved, that to backslide and renounce Him would be a point of no return. As I stated in my earlier reply, I had accepted Christ as my Saviour many times, but hadn't really understood what that truly meant. In fact, I was so untaught, I believed in reincarnation and karma. I thought Jesus simply erased some of my bad karma. I didn't have the full revelation that Jesus IS God. It is possible to give your heart to Jesus and be truly saved, but not to give Him your mind. I had never done that until the last time I got saved.

After that last time, about 18 years ago, I realized I had a responsibility to search out the scriptures, to ask my pastor questions, to go to church, fellowship with other believers, and to pray daily. Then I began to grow. It was like a veil came off of my mind gradually. One day I really understood! It was like a light going on in my head.

I don't think everyone struggles with this as much as I did. I was raised with beliefs in reincarnation and psychic powers and all that new age stuff. I probably had a demonic stronghold in my mind. With study, prayer, and worship, it came down. Now I don't think I could consciously renounce and reject my Lord, but if I did, I feel it would be like crucifying Him all over again. I could never do that. I love Him too much.

It's sort of like what if the prodigal son left his father's house a second time?

This isn't about works. We are not saved by works, lest any man should boast, Paul says. It's about an attitude of the heart. The Pharisees of Bible days did all the right things but their hearts were not right before God.I know what you mean, Slade, about bad habits. I have lost weight and gained it back again several times. I also wrestle with an anger problem. I know it is a sin to overeat and lose my temper(at least I feel it is a sin for me)yet I struggle with this as some people do with smoking or drinking or other bad habits.

I don't believe we can ever lose our salvation by falling short of perfection -- our loving Father KNOWS we all fall short. He doesn't expect us to be perfect anymore than we expect our children to be perfect. He just wants us to let Him help us try to be more like Jesus.

As for tears in Heaven, I want to have them. I love to cry. In fact, whenever I feel the presence of the Holy Spirit, my eyes tear up. I know this is true of many believers. Tears can be for more than grieving. If you look at that scripture about tears in Heaven, I think you will find it is talking about tears of mourning, pain, and sorrow. It says He will "wipe away every tear," not that He will forbid us to cry. Humans are the only creature that cries and laughs. I think that shows God does these things too. He would never take these precious gifts away from us.

May the Lord continue to draw you all into His loving presence through the study of His awesome Word.

Hello Olivia
Member! , and how are you doing? , but in answering your questions,

posted November 05, 2003 04:42 AM
Hi all

I was wondering, is it possible to sell you soul after you have given your heart to Jesus?

And...What does it really mean to "sell your soul"?




Posts: 7 | From: JHB, Gauteng, SOUTH AFRICA



Let me first ask you this very important question,

so that you can know for yourself weather or not had you sold something from what you ever had,

or for an example:

have you ever read what Mary THE Mother of Jesus felt when she knew what was going on with her Son Jesus, when he was being taken away by the solders? ,

well, I guess she felt like she was loosing everything, but she did not sell him to anyone! , right! , so! , now! how would YOU feel according to the same situation inwhich you had asked about,

please try to relate with Mary as a mother! having someone soo dear as a person, knowing that person personally, and then selling it! for something else.

Really, if you can see this picture, then you would know for yourself exactly what you are dealing with, in giving your heart to to one who can only save your soul from hell/diaster, thats if you have taken his/Jesus yoke upon yourself and learning of him as he have said, Matthew 11:25-"29"-30, or wheather you are following something else,

really your question is not hard at all, if you were thirsting after his righteousness (firstly! Matthew 6:24-34), in knowing the truth for yourself, that it will make you free!, so that you can be free indeed!John 8:31, 32, John 5:39,


So! in answering your questions correctly, what do you feel? , about after you have really given yourself/heart to Jesus! that you really know, could you really sell yourself/soul for following something else?

Because I personally believe that a person can and is selling to other sources, and I also believe that you can see for yourself! , please! we do encourage you in doing just that! Matthew 4:4. "has he have said directly to that wicked one", AND DID NOT EVER TAKE IT BACK! , BECAUSE HE ALONE DID NOT HAVE TO TAKE WHATEVER THE WICKED ONE WAS THROWING OUT.

I once was lost, (IN but COULDN'T look out), but now! I can see, (OUT Looking in),

John 14:15, I John 2:1-5-9-13. , II John 1-8-"9-13". III John: "2".

Love always, from:

your Brother in Christ


http://www.firstthings1st.com

Olivia
........hello?...are you still there? You've started something here. It is good that these questions are coming up, it makes us study and pray more diligently. Regarding Steve's question about Hebrews 6:4-6, my pastor teaches the same thing that Kat said. Everyone should read the chapters preceding it and after it to see the context. (Chapters 5-7.)

Regarding the other's posts I just want you to consider these scriptures:
John 10:28-30--" And I give them ETERNAL LIFE, and they shall NEVER PERISH, neither shall ANYONE snatch ( "pluck" in the KJV) them out of My hand." My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all, and NO ONE is able to snatch/pluck them out of My Father's hand. I and my Father are one."

John 6:37..." All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me, I will by no means cast out."

Jerimiah 3:22..."Return you backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings.

Hebrews 12:2..." looking to Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith."

Hebrews 11:6...."but without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

Philippians 1:6...." being confident of this very thing, that He who has BEGUN a good work in you WILL COMPLETE IT until the day of Christ."

Psalm 145:19..." The Lord is near to All who call upon Him."

Proverbs 3:11-12 & (Hebrews 12:5-13).....My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, nor detest His correction, for whom the Lord loves, He corrects, just as a father the son in whom he delights..."

Rev. 3:19...."As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore, be zealous and repent."