I have a question. This is something that was once settled in my mind, but there are books out there and Christians these days who believe that if you have unconfessed sin, or unforgiveness in your heart, or a host of other things, even as a born again, saved Christian, you can end up in hell. Please can someone shed light on this for me?

I believe that it is impossible for your salvation to be taken away from you because of this scripture in Jn 6:39 "And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day." & Jn 10:28-29 "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand."

However it may be possible for us to give it up, as there are a few passages that sound like this: "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" 2 Thess 2:3.

I don't nessisarily suscribe to that thought as in Mt 13:24-30 Jesus tells me that people who look like christians but aren't never really were in the first place. Not to mention that the greek word for "saved" - "sozo" seems to come across as a past, present & future tense word.

I suggest that you copy me & put faith in this verse - Jude 24 "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,". My God is able to keep you from falling, not to mention He it is "Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Cor 1:8).

As far as unconfessed sin they are correct - Prov 28:13 "He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy." & 1 Jn 1:9-10 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

Also unforgiveness will stop you from being forgiven - "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." Mt 6:14-15.

Just remember that our eternal life isn't only obeying what the bible says - 2 Cor 3:6b "the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." but rather the most important part is our relationship with God - Jn 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.". Some people think that they are working for God but do not have a relationship with Him & are therefore lost; compare Mt 7:21-23 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.".

Also good reading is Rom 6 - "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." & take a look at 1 Jn 3:4-10 (focusing on verse 9) "4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5) And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7) Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8) He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10) In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." & remember that it doesn't matter which sin you commit because James 2:10 says "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.".

If you are truly "born again" you won't want to sin as Ezek 11:19 says "And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:" & 2 Cor 5:17 says "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.".

I am still struggling with this. I know what you are saying is true. I remember specific versus where Jesus talks about the vine and us being the branches, and that He will cut away or prune any branch that does not bear fruit in Him.
But another view is this: Eternal life is a promise from God. Salvation cannot be 'undone' - surely? Once bought at a price, surely God cannot change His mind? Surely if chosen to serve Him, and even if we do a shoddy job at serving Him, we might not be rewarded as we could have, and we might not hear the words "Well done, good and faithful servant, but rather 'welcome home', instead? I can't seem to quite accept that Jesus would die to cover our sin with his blood, and make us white as snow before the father, die for our sins past, present and future, but then take away his gift of salvation, i.e. 'un-save' us, if we don't 'measure up'. Isn't this the reason He died for us? because we are hopeless at perfection? Because we are born into sin and fall short of His standard, the glory of God??

Hey Kaz

I agree with what Slade (Long time no hear slade) said.

The bible says that only those who endure to the end will be saved, so there is a certain amount of responsibility placed on us to make sure that we stay on the straight and narrow...or remain in the vine.

Our salvation is a gift, its not something that we earn by good works(before or after salvation), nor is there anything that we can "do" to show God that he made a good choice by calling us into His kingdom. Some of the most powerful people in Gods kingdom are not even known, they're the warriors and fighters in Gods army, dying and suffering for the gospel all around the world, those who are persecuted for the Name that is above all names.

I think to summarise what Slade said, focus rather on KNOWING God, and not on doing things for Him.What could you possibly do for God that He cannot do for Himself? We aren't called to different types of ministries because God needs us, He called us into those ministries to prepare us for eternity.

Your salvation is a gift of grace, meaning that we didn't deserve His favour, but we got it anyway. Don't now, once you've started your walk by grace, try to justify it by doing works or things for God...remain in that grace because we need it EVERY day. "Not by might, nor by power but by My Spirit"...focus on knowing God and not doing things for God, as slade said...

Mt 7:21-23 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.".

Be Blessed bro

Your logic & reasoning are all good; but show me some scriptures to back it up. Rom 3:4 "let God be true, but every man a liar" Isa 8:20 "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Prov 14:12 "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."

The pruning in the verse you mentioned doesn't have anything to do with anyone losing their salvation though, that is saying that works on us more & gives us special care so that we may become fruitful. The taking away that is mentioned just before the pruning is talking about lifting us higher so we get more sunlight.

You are right salvation cannot be "undone" as it was already acomplished upon the cross; however it is a free gift & it seems that it is a possibility that as with any other gift that you recieve, you may decide that you don't want it anymore & throw it away.

Look at 1 Jn 3:9 again - "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Also 2 Pet 2:20-22 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire." the term "the latter end is worse with them than the beginning" is in there because "For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Lk 12:48b.

I was just going over this passage in Heb 6:4-6 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." - I used to think that it meant that it was impossible for them to fall away but after re-reading it for the hundredth time it looks more like if they fall away it is impossible for them to renew them again unto repentance & that seems to fit with the passage about Esau - Heb 12:17 "For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears." & so the latter end being worse than the beginning is probably saying that origonally we were lost but had the oprotunity to repent but if we do then fall away we will be lost without an oprotunity to repent again.

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ.

I don't care what you've done or what you're doing. Whatever it is, stop, repent,receive your forgiveness, turn away from that which hinders and run to God...

Thank you Slade. Been praying about this and I feel as though I have been condemed, (from the enemy) because of past backsliding. However, I'm now totally convinced that because I have returned to Him, I am not condemned. I need to confess past sin and repent and turn to him.
Any advice on being in bondage? (addictions)

Thank you for this input Junior!


Kaz

Kaz said

quote:

Any advice on being in bondage? (addictions)

Well this is a big issue & with 3 days to meditate I still don't know what to say - lets start with Gal 5:1 "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."

Try Rom 12:1-2 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

Heb 12:1 "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,"

Rom 6:21 "What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death."

1 Cor 10:13 "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

2 Cor 12:9 "And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness."

One of the things God taught me is "Whatever you spend the majority of your time, money & energy on is your god". So if you say you love God but you spend most of your money on drugs, listen to music about drugs, watch tv shows about drugs, & hang out all day at the drug dealer's house talking about drugs, do you love God, or do you love drugs? God doesn't want us worshipping anything else but Him, so we are not allowed to obsess about anything else but God.

Hi Slade.
Gotcha, thank you for your insight.
Wasn't quite as hectic as drugs, just smoking, and I'm not even sure it's that much of an 'obsession', that it's my god, but yet, can't quite seem to quit entirely. And that tells me there's something wrong.
Thank you for all your advice!

"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." - 1 Cor 6:12