Hi,

I was wondering, as a Christian do you think that I should support the death sentence. I know that the bible has the eye for eye and tooth for tooth. I have found the following passage in Matthew that seems to explain that the death sentence really shouldn’t be the way us Christians should feel. Please let me know if I am right or wrong in my interpretation of the following passage:

Matthew 5

38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Thanks,

Marc

Hi Marckc! I will try to do some more research and give you a more complete answer, but my initial thoughts are this.

The intent of Jesus’ Words in Mathew 5 that you have quoted is not talking about how government punishment and laws should be carried out as much as it is talking about one person’s direct response to another. If you continue reading right after this area in Mathew, Jesus talks about loving our enemies. Again the example he gives is one person directly responding to another.

The Bible talks about government’s purpose to punish evil and protect those who do good.

Romans: 13:1-7
“13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except by God’s appointment, and the authorities that exist have been instituted by God. 13:2 So the person who resists such authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will incur judgment 13:3 (for rulers cause no fear for good conduct but for bad). Do you desire not to fear authority? Do good and you will receive its commendation, 13:4 for it is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be in fear, for it does not bear the sword in vain. It is God’s servant to administer retribution on the wrongdoer. 13:5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of the wrath of the authorities but also because of your conscience.13:6 For this reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants devoted to governing. 13:7 Pay everyone what is owed: taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.”

The book of Deuteronomy may also shed some light as to the character of God in the issues of law. Hope that helps.

The best form of government that the world has ever seen was the one the Jews had before their first king - God was the direct ruler of the nation giving his messages concerning external & internal policy via His prophets & high priests. It is a crying shame that we cannot or will not resurrect that form of government.

Daniel (in chapter 4, verse 17) says that our world leaders are going to be the basest of men.

Jesus knew that fact but nevertheless told us to give to ceasar what belongs to him. Why would Jesus ask us to support a government that is 9x out of 10 corrupt? Probably as a testomony - just as in interpersonal relationships if we do good to those who do evil to us we are heaping coals of fire upon their heads - the coals of fire being the Holy Spirit's presence appealing to their concience - the same type of effect should happen when we behave righteous towards a corrupt government.

I believe in my heart that when our government does actions that are wrong - like the death penalty or funding wars in other countries to gain access to their resources, or to condemn the poor that it is our responsibility as Christians to try & change it. Lucky for us in America that is at least a theoretical possibility.

However whenever we get a powerful leader preaching revolutuion they get shot. So who wants to be the next Martin Luther King Jr? No matter how dissatisfied I am with the current system I wouldn't want to step into those shoes... But if I don't then who will? If I try it will anyone listen to me? Are we too apathetic as a nation for anyone to be able to have an impact? I don't think that it is my Job to lead the next revolution; but I do think that it is high time that we had one. If our government continues to forsake God; He will forsake us & I feel sorry for us in that day.

The verse that Shawn quoted says that the people we have in authority over us corrupt or not have been given that authority by God. Regardless wether or not we think that we voted them in.

I heard a saying that goes "In order for evil to triumph all that needs to happen is for good men to do nothing" - perhaps the corruption in government is just another test of our charecter as a church - are we willing to do somethinhg about it? Or will we just accept injustices in the name of the almighty government?

Our nation was founded by a bunch of people who called themselves christians - I dont know how good of christians they really were as almost all of them had slaves & the bible teaches me that all men are equal.

Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the phrase that we accept as a nessecity or universal truth or reality "separation of church & state" in his private memoirs also penned a law that would not let a colony become a state unless they taught the bible & the morality contained within it in their schools. The reason that we want the church & state to be separate is to protect freedom of religon (not freedom from religon) - if a king in france was catholic then he would harass, kill, persecute & steal land from all the protestants & when his successor was a protestant then he would turn around & harass all the catholics - that is what we were trying to avoid - we wanted the government to not dictate what religon to have, not let the government be unaffected by morality contained in religon.

The reason I feel that the death penalty is wrong is not only the scripture that marckc gave us but also the one that goes "render not evil for evil I will recompense saith the Lord" - Yes imprisoning someone for life depletes our resources but by prematurely cutting someone's life short we are robbing them of God only knows how many years of chances for them to repent & as you well know when a lost sheep is found there is great rejoicing in heaven. That should be our main goal, the salvation of the sinner's soul, not vengance. As we all know there is only one unforgivable sin & blasphemy of the Holy Ghost isn't even illegal in this country, so we have no excuse using capitol punishment for crimes that Jesus died to forgive. Remember what Jesus said - if we refuse to forgive others then God will not forgive us - no christian in their right mind should support the death penalty in my opinion. I know that it is hard when you are the one who has been personally wronged; but realize that Jesus was able to forgive people for sins that they committed against other people; not only to himself directly because He is the very God who is cheifly offended in all offences. It is easy or acceptable to forgive someone for something they did to you, but if you or I said to someone that their sins against other people were forgiven we would be called crazy because we have no authority to do such a thing. However we accept that Jesus has that authority so we should act like it.

There is one scripture that I forgot about untill just now - the one in 1st John that says there is a sin that is unto death & a sin that is not unto death - but I feel that that one has to do with sins that cause death like drug overdose for example. However there is a possibility that scripture can be taken to mean that the government is justified in killing people sometimes - I know in the old testament God was responsible for killing a lot of people - Sodom & Gamorrah for example. However the sayings of Jesus & Paul teach me that the old testament was all good but it wasnt everything (the law was unable to make the commers therunto perfect, it was a schoolmaster leading us to Christ). The old testament taught us about our behavior but Jesus said that our attitudes of the heart causes our behavior & that changing our attitude for the better should be the target of our concern.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Slade,

Slade,

You are my brother in Christ and I always appreciate your heart for seeking out the Lord and studying His Word. You have provided valuable insight to many issues on this message board and I hope that you continue to. However, statements like “no christian in their right mind should support the death penalty in my opinion” is not the approach we should take when encouraging our fellow believer on subjects that are not essential to our faith in Jesus Christ. Many God fearing Christians believe that the death penalty is not outside of God’s purpose for government and have scripture to back them up. Discussion is really good and we should share what God has taught us with other Christians. This is how we grow.

quote:

Many God fearing Christians believe that the death penalty is not outside of God’s purpose for government and have scripture to back them up.

Do you know any of those scriptures that people with that opinion or doctrine use by any chance?

Notice the involvement of courts, judges, witnesses, and Moses in the following areas of scripture. The intent of these laws God gave Israel were meant for JUSTICE not personal vengeance.

Exodus 21:22-25
Leviticus 24:17-23
Deuteronomy 19:16-21

---------------------------------------------
Jesus speaks about the Old Testament.
Mathew 5:17

------------------------------------------
Jesus speaks about personal relationships. Jesus speaks against personal vengeance.
Mathew 5:21-48

----------------------------------------

God’s Word concerning the purpose of government and laws. Government is assigned the task of carrying out Justice by God.

Romans 13:1-5

---------------------------------------------
If we were to try and carry out JUSTICE apart from courts and God ordained government, than more than likely we would be taking personal vengeance. Jesus speaks against personal vengeance in Mathew 5, but He is not speaking against JUSTICE. Hope this helps. I don’t feel I have the wisdom to respond deeper than I have to this difficult subject.

Marckc,

This is my understanding of the death penalty. God used it in the same way democratic governments use it today -- and that is to be a deterrent. The Exodus 21:22-25, Leviticus 24:17-23 and the Deuteronomy 19:19-21 passages are a part of what Christians call the Law of Moses, which was to help govern the Israelite nation as a kingdom holy to the Lord. Though the death penalty was given for particular offenses, it was seldom carried out. We know this because the Israelites eventually went into captivity and exile for their idolatry. If the death penalty had been used for the offense of idolatry, this would have never occurred, but God wanted a people who would follow Him out of a heart of reverence and not out of subjugation to a tyrannical ruler. God has shown His mercy as well as His justice throughout the Scripture. The death penalty is the ultimate deterrent and in some instances, I believe it to not only be necessary, but also sanctioned by God.

The phrase “an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth” is often quoted, but with little understanding as to what it means. A scripture in Deuteronomy gives a purpose for the instructions (which I call them, because the Hebrew word, “torah”, that has been translated into the English word ”law” actually means instructions, teachings, and doctrines). It says one of the purposes of the Lord’s instructions was so the nations would see the wisdom in these instructions and choose to follow the Israelite’s God who gave them such a righteous way to live. When we study the instructions given, we also need to see the wisdom in them. Why would another people want to be like or become a part of a nation that mutilates, maimes and blinds itself? I would think there would have been a lot of toothless Israelites! The Sages say this was not the case. Instead this phrase is understood to mean that when one injures another, he is to compensate for those injuries, either by paying monetary damages or giving them something of equal value, such as the livestock from their herds. One commentary says “Never was there a Jewish court that ever blinded or otherwise inflicted a physical injury in revenge or retribution; the only corporal punishment ever imposed are the death penalty and lashes, where provided by the Torah”.

So what was it Jesus was saying, when He said, “You have heard it SAID”, ... but I say unto you …”? It’s my understanding Jesus was not teaching in opposition to the instructions of Moses. Rather, He was giving the accurate interpretation and clearing up a false impression of what the Jews had been taught. Some might call it the "intent of the law", but I prefer to call it the correct interpretation, because the "intent of the law" has not changed. In fact, the American justice system bases its "tort" law (the idea of restitution) upon these very scriptures.

The following are some passages from the Hebrew Scriptures that relate to how we are to treat our fellow man and also our enemies. It was always understood that God was the avenger.

Leviticus 19:17-18 You shall not take vengeance.

Deuteronomy 30:7 God would take care of the Israelite’s enemies.

II Chronicles 1:11-12 God rewarded Solomon with wisdom – one reason being he did not ask for the life of those who hated him

Psalm 21:8-9 The Lord is the avenger.

Isaiah 66:5-6

Luke 6:22-23 “for in the same way their fathers used to treat the prophets”

I hope this has helped. There is far more that could be said about the topic.


Blessings,

Chelki

Shawn, Slade, and Chelki,

Thank you for your replies and wisdom in God's word. Your replies greatly helped me understand God's truth in this matter.

Thanks again

Marckc